Thanks for the price that we hadn’t seen ahead of
I’m not sure should you have access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or perhaps not, since it is written given that a reference having Americans with colonial ancestors off Plantagenet lineage. He gives as one of his evidences that Joanna is the fresh new mother out-of Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn offered the fresh new properties of Knighton and you can Norton castles in Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer whenever he and you may Gwladus were hitched. It can was in fact illegal having Llewelyn giving Joanna’s property in order to an enthusiastic illegitimate daughter (otherwise individual who wasn’t a child out of Joanna). The newest functions off Norton and Knighton stayed throughout the Mortimer nearest and dearest thereafter. The latest offer was, “That in case the latest King bring House to a man that have good woman of his kindred in the honest relationships, in addition to woman dyeth versus matter, the man regarding the Leaders case will maybe not hold it to own their existence, since lady was the cause of the fresh new provide.” This basically means, the new functions will have reverted back again to the fresh crown before it would-have-been made available to a baby who had been not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I didn’t get access to this new Plantaganet Origins by Doug Richardson, however, did get access to the many discussions of your and you can their theories looking for beautiful turkish brides along with other genealogists (particular having him, but the majority of also against). I believe, once i stated in my personal previous report, you to just what shifts they for me personally(Joanna as being the mother out-of Gwladus), is the transfer of characteristics your speak about so you can Ralph de Mortimer on their ed two of their students ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I cannot imagine that when the Gwladus had been the ded their students for this reason. In spite of the arguments between your eminent genealogists We discuss a lot more than, there is certainly a broad consensus that Gwladus Ddu is going to be relatively recognized as this new child off Llywelyn abdominal Iorwerth because of the Joanna, child (after that legitimised) away from John, Queen off The united kingdomt. I want to need it chance to agree with Sharon (into the a contact in my experience) one Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian was of the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and thus becoming bloodstream sibling in order to Gruffudd. I ft it partly on a contemporary listing included in ‘Regal or any other Historical characters Illustrative of the leadership away from Henry 111,’ modified by the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. For the pages 500-503 is the transcript of exclusive page dated Marshall, Earl regarding Pembroke, so you can Queen Henry 111. Inside letter, Marshall talks about his siege of the castles off Crum, Kilmore and you will O’Realy. He lists the individuals the guy found in the castle O’Realy when they surrendered, they incorporated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre mais aussi matre, ainsi que uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, et mater dictorum Willelmi ainsi que Thomae ….” I’m informed that this means you will find here Gwenllian, daughter of Prince llywelyn, who seems to be entitled ‘aunt of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd becoming brand new illegitimate young man out of Llywelyn, it’s taken one ‘de patre ainsi que matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd was basically complete blood cousin and you may sibling. Had Gwenllian started Joanna’s daughter and therefore King Henry’s niece, positively Marshall could have stated thereon fact? So it incapacity off de- Lacy’s partner as king’s relative, are removed as near particular facts you to Gwenllian was not the child of the king’s sister Joanna.
These types of properties was indeed element of Joanna’s maritagium out-of their dad Queen John
Ken: Thank you for one mention of Gwenllian. I’m definitely not an expert genealogist, but I do plenty of browse on my own outlines. I think a few of the “pros” are extremely envious and enraged each and every most other (at least it seems that method in a few of everything it post). You’ll find items that we are just not likely to see confidently in the members of the brand new MA because they didn’t keep public information such as for example we do now, so genealogists and you can historians have to use their utmost judgment for the sorting something away. In fact, vital records try a fairly “new” design – of many says here in the us don’t remain records from births and you will fatalities until the early 1900’s. We fall under several ancestry societies where I have had in order to establish eleven or several generations, and you will trust in me it is not easy. So i most appreciate the trouble from comparing MA ancestors. (Together with sad question is the fact that the suggestions that are offered to the MA are of your royalty and you will nobility – absolutely nothing whatsoever for the well-known anybody).
